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Posted by Lucidity (Member # 4665) on December 10, 2006 01:00 AM :

Been watching the live views of our beautiful planet as shown by the orbiting shuttle STS-116. Such an amazing view. The most amazing views, to me, though, were those shown by the camera on the last fuel tank, focused on the burning fire rocketing it all away from earth at a rate of over 3000 mph, at one point. Land a mercy! I had been so impressed at one of the earliest speeds given in the first minute after launch... 1000 mph. Now what does THAT feel like?

I hate to tell you, that I saw the shuttle as the external tank fell away, and realized that what must have been a fabulous camera was discarded with the tank.

Anyhow, I wondered if Michael had thought of doing a book on modern space flight, including the unbelievable science of strapping a shuttle to the top of a rocket and then exploding a bomb under the rocket, which was then a guided missile.

It could be pretty fascinating to read his descriptions of the thoughts of astronauts and the physical effects and changes as they go through it all. A MURDER in SPACE! How about it?
Pelonium injected into somebody's prepared meal.... BTW, you can read the menu of each of the astronaut's food for the trip. The information includes whether or not the food needed to be rehydrated, was fresh, had been irradiated ----- oooooh Lots of opportunities to create an accident, eh?

[ December 10, 2006, 03:28 AM: Message edited by: Lucidity ]

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Posted by The One (Member # 2600) on December 10, 2006 08:57 AM :

I always loved space. I was always fascinated by it. So naturally I've read many space related books, novels that I could find. And among those novelists the best for me is Arthur C Clarke. Issac Asimov comes next I believe.

But as you have suggested, if MC writes a book about the space I'm sure it'd be one in the rank of those greats I've mentioned above. I really love to see such a book. So would be our good old Chad, I'm sure of that since he's always wanted a space themed novel by MC...

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Posted by Lucidity (Member # 4665) on December 10, 2006 04:02 PM :

One of my favorite daydreams has been that after I die, I will be able to go anywhere I want to in space, just by thinking about where I want to go. I think, I am there. I want to watch the birth of a star and go through a black hole.

MC will have to think about this one for a LONG time to cover all the strange, unexpected, nature of Space. I think this would be a worthy challenge for the Crichton mind to grapple with. Don't you?

Press Kit for Current Space Mission is here:

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/156557main_Expe ... ss_Kit.pdf

[ December 10, 2006, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: Lucidity ]

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Posted by chdbtlrc (Member # 5158) on December 11, 2006 05:47 AM :

It would. But maybe a massive ship to travel with might help him clear his head a little.

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Posted by The One (Member # 2600) on December 11, 2006 08:50 AM :


quote:
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Originally posted by Lucidity:

MC will have to think about this one for a LONG time to cover all the strange, unexpected, nature of Space. I think this would be a worthy challenge for the Crichton mind to grapple with. Don't you?

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I don't think even MC could cover all the things about space. It's beyond human imagination I think. But yeah, MC could do a great story about space if he give it a thought, I'm sure of that.

And thanks for the link Luce.

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Posted by Lucidity (Member # 4665) on December 11, 2006 05:13 PM :

Isn't it great that it's beyond human imagination? I like that.

I was amazed to find how much NASA has spread into such interesting areas, including NASA AMES Research Center, in MOFFETT California. I think Moffett is an AF base. But AMES appears to be intensely educational, providing lessons, workbooks, and tons of information to both students and teachers. You should check it out. It was started in 1939, and has evolved into one of the country's premier research labs.

"12.11.06 - NASA Sends Students to the Utah Desert for Mars Research
On the heels of NASA's announcement to build a permanent base on the moon by 2024, NASA Quest, Moffett Field, Calif., will announce the results of the Lunar Research Station Design Challenge
+ Read More"

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/home/index.html

[ December 11, 2006, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Lucidity ]

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Posted by chdbtlrc (Member # 5158) on December 12, 2006 05:13 AM :

Interesting article. They should implement my idea!!!

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Posted by The One (Member # 2600) on December 12, 2006 09:28 AM :

Good article Luce. Thanks.

And just below that there is this article, which I found very interesting.
Water still flows on Mars

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Posted by Lucidity (Member # 4665) on December 12, 2006 05:15 PM :

TheOne, fascinating! But I wonder if it's really H2O. Is it possible? With the temperatures on Mars? If it really is fluid, what is it?

Whether or not it's water, it's intriguing. Anybody have an idea?

What if a Rover were there to sample it? Maybe a Rover is there.... I'm too old to go, but never too old to have ideas and questions. Therefore, I propose sending Chad to check it out.

Which reminds me. I realized that I was sending El Chado because of his exuberant youth, but check out the ages of the exuberant, questing astronauts. Suni Williams is 41 and is replacing Tomas Reiter as a temporary resident of the international space station.

Boy, some excellent stories could be built around all this. Michael?

[ December 12, 2006, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: Lucidity ]

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Posted by DavidBrennan (Member # 5512) on December 12, 2006 09:56 PM :

If anybody's looking for a great book about space travel, there's TONS of them in the science section of Barnes & Noble or any library.

Of course, I'd start with 'The Right Stuff'.

Somebody said that Crichton should write a story about dying in space, but that wouldn't require too much imagination, as we have so much public documentation about the Challenger and Columbia disasters (although, technically, they weren't in space).

[NOTE: I talk about the new lunar base announced - not to be constructed for another 18 years....ugh - in my newest post at www.JamesCameron.Blogspot.com ]

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Posted by The One (Member # 2600) on December 15, 2006 10:20 AM :

I think it could be liquid H2O. The article explains how it could be there, doesn't it? There are thing that hard to imagine, but still they are there...

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Posted by Lucidity (Member # 4665) on December 16, 2006 10:53 PM :

When someone suggested that Michael write about dying in space, I wonder if they meant a death due to an illness. Or an accident happening to one person, instead of the entire crew .... like one person's losing connection to the shuttle or station. Perhaps a sudden, devastating stroke. How other astronauts would cope, how those on the ground would respond, what recommendations would be made, thoughts thunk, etc.

What if somebody went sleep-walking and ? What if Ground Control saw it but couldn't rouse the others? And the live NASA-TV went black for a long time and the media went ballistic .... Yeah, Michael could write this like nobody else could write it. Maybe he is ...

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Posted by The One (Member # 2600) on December 17, 2006 08:39 AM :


I hope so...

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Posted by Mukenko (Member # 4369) on December 19, 2006 02:56 PM :

I would enjoy seeing what kind of space-fiction book that Dr. Crichton would write.

If he wrote one...

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Posted by Oleg L Gubarev (Member # 5695) on December 25, 2006 03:13 PM :

What is interesting about space for me, it is almost full stopping of space explorations now. Of course, if we will compare the rate of this explorations now with the rate of such explorations in period of 1960-1970.
Many scientists base on rate of space explorations in those years and made next forecast till 2000:
station and telescope at the moon - 1985-1988
station at Mercury pole for sun explorations -1988
science station at Titan for Saturn studying -1995
cosmic port at the moon for interplanet flights -1988.
And they said that this forecasts were more pessimistic than optimistic. Then cold war end and with it ended space age.
I think this strange trend must to attract attention of Michael if he will write about space. In his articles and speeches about aliens Michael mention that one of the possibilities is that our civilisation is exeptional.
My pesonal opinion that we are alone in Universe and fate of our civilisation depend from rate of space explorations and colonisaton of sun system planets. We have time yet, but time is short.

[ February 05, 2007, 02:39 AM: Message edited by: Oleg L Gubarev ]

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Posted by PenguinMoose (Member # 4685) on December 30, 2006 02:48 PM :

A thought, and a question:

If anyone should be interested in a non-fiction, but entertaining book about the early US space program, I reccomend The Unbroken Chain by Guenter Wendt. Wendt ezzentially was in charge of the pads and all of the goings on around them in the Mercury, Gemini, part of Apollo, and part of the Space Shuttle programs at Kennedy Space Center. His book is fairly short, and meant for the general population rather than the scientific community, but it's very interesting to read about his life, and his experiences with the early astronauts.

And now the question: Does anyone know anythign about watching live shuttle (and rocket for that matter) lanches from far away places (say, Pennsylvania): Is it possible, what sorts of ocular decives would one need, etc? My Physics teacher was saying something about being able to see the launch from PA, but my attempts to do so were interupted by my first snow fall and the desperate need to go scream and frolic with people. Any information you all could offer would be appreciated... My attempts at information-finding were not fruitful.

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Posted by Oleg L Gubarev (Member # 5695) on December 31, 2006 10:05 AM :


quote:
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Originally posted by Oleg L Gubarev:
What is interesting about space for me, it is almost full stopping of space explorations now. Of course, if we will compare the rate of this explorations now with the rate of such explorations in period of 1960-1970.
Many scientists base on rate of space explorations in those years and made next forecast till 2000:
station and telescope at the moon - 1985-1988
station at Mercury pole for sun explorations -1988
science station at Titan for Saturn studying -1995
cosmic port at the moon for interplanet flights -1988.
And they said that this forecasts were more pessimistic than optimistic. Then cold war end and with it ended space age.
I think this strange trend must to attract attention of Michael if he will write about space. In his articles and speeches about aliens Michael mention that one of the possibilities is that our civilisation is exeptional.
My pesonal opinion that we are alone in Universe and fate of our civilisation depend from rate of space explorations and colonisaton of sun system planets. We have time yet, but time is short.
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I wish to give bibliographic reference:
"Space Age in Fiskal Year 2001".Ed. by Eugene B. Konecci. Proceedings of the Forth AAS Goddard Memorial Symposium. 15-16 March 1966. Washington D.C. An American Astronautical Society Publication

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Posted by Lucidity (Member # 4665) on January 05, 2007 08:32 AM :

Watch a space launch from Pennsylvania? Sure. If it's in Pennsylvania. But how did your teacher say this was possible?

By the way, frolicking in the snow with friends is a more healthy activity, in my opinion.

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Posted by Lucidity (Member # 4665) on January 05, 2007 08:34 AM :

Oleg,

The recent launch to an international space station was very interesting to me. NASA had live television with commentary throughout. NASA has many websites and lots of information about space and space projects. You could read for weeks!

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Posted by Oleg L Gubarev (Member # 5695) on January 09, 2007 11:08 PM :

Dear Luce!
In my country situation is same. They publish so many things about space explorations and projects . But how about realisation of all this projects? How about financing? Mankind finance those items which it see as first need. And space is not among them.
Evidence? Please, read discussion of the two big brains:
Dialogue Toynbee and Ikeda.
They said:" yes, space, it is interesting.. but Mankind have more real needs here, on Earth...
Terrorism, hunger, epidemics, poorness..."
And how many people see it by the same way.
Now, please, imagine Columb who asking money on his expedition to ... No one in Old World know where and why? Spain Queen give him money because for her it was not so big sum. And remember fate of Columb! Spansish require from him (after his discover) gold, gold, more gold....
Is such approach many different from Mankind relation to space EXPLORATION now? And what about COLONISATION?
And do you think that Columb start his dangerous jorney if he was told by Queen:"All what you discover will be common propriety"?
Every second electronic game now develope in space. Mankind try create in virtual reality on computers feeling that in space explorations all is so good. Mankind try to reassure himself: "all is good!"
I think Columb was in more profitable situation in his time, then NASA now.

P.S. Now after small search in Internet I found site with Views close to mine:
http://sylviaengdahl.com/space/survival.htm#links
I strongly recommend this site visiting for discussion on topics "Aliens",
"Are we alone?", "Space" etc.

Hey, dear KickUp, it's for you!

[ February 05, 2007, 02:40 AM: Message edited by: Oleg L Gubarev ]

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In additions to my previous messages about curtailed space exploration and colonization process. I remember about great movie "2001 Space Odyssey". This movie was created based on our inner feeling of the rate of development in space exploration. Please, turn your attention to the point of our space achivements in movie and in reality in 2007. Don't we reject from space explorations? If we do something in this area all the same, I think it is not for science and surviving, but for common opinion satisfy.
Very sad thoughts ...

Dear Oleg,

I'm not so sure we are doing nothing about making a further push into space. Isn't that one of the purposes of the ISS; to conduct experiments and figure out ways in which the human body can endure extended periods in zero gravity, how to eat, sleep, the difficulty of biochemical processes in zero gravity, and many other issues? We can't just throw people into space and expect them to "stick" someday. There are many issues that science must address, find problems and solve first before humans will survive. Any world with properties divergent from our own should be considered hostile. And what should scientists do about that? There must first be a plan in place in order to answer and deal with these problems, don't you think?

Friends: I think space exploration has to continue but no with the aim of colonization. You have touched upon that already. Here I shall address a few physical factors on which our survival depends and some industrial applications and manufactures. At the space that our ISS travels, it is not zero gravity. It is micro-gravity. At such environment, we can produce perfectly round ball bearings, nanoparticles with perfect dimensions that are necessary for nanotechnology. Like Kickup said, biochemical reactions have to be studied to see if we can have the same or similar physiological processes at microgravity. Our blood vessels are structured to live down here. The arteries are thick while the veins are thin with one-way valves to prevent our blood flowing back to our feet due to gravity, for example. We don't need to be a rocket scientist to realize the work for the heart out there will not be the same as down here. Material fatigue is another important factor to consider. Would the same materials be more or less durable?
I am still holding on to my conviction that we should spend our effort for betterment of our environment. There is no need to colonize outer space or another planet. We do however should take advantage of microgravity or other physical characters out there to assist us in making better products for us down here.
When environment changes, our society will change. Therefore, a better environment will lead to a better society.

Harold, sorry for messing up your post, but that's what I got out of it.

When reading your comment I realized that this is what we tend to do:
'Look for happiness, or reasons to live outside ourselves instead of from within, which is what we were designed to do."
I believe that all and everyone of us, have been put upon this earth to make it work, one way or the other.
Running away from it won't make the task disappear.
It will only repeat itself somewhere else.

Ingrid: I am glad someone like you can translate my thoughts from my 'messy' writings. One of my good colleague used to tell me that I write like I do Taiji, going round and around !!
You are right. Escaping the wrongs is not a solution to right the wrongs. We mess it up, we should fix it up.
Peaks on Himalaya are full of trash.If they can carry stuff up, why couldn't they carry them back down.

Well, I'm feeling a little sarcastic here, but I'd say because we have become a society of a whole bunch of Mes, as in the plural of Me. I, I, I; Me, me, me. Whatever is good for the individual me is all that matters. But I have hope because many people who have identified with the "me" of life are realizing the effect that "me" has on everyone else, and learning to recognize the unity, not only between all the meeeee folks, but between themselves and the earth as well. Maybe people will begin to organize trash clean up treks to base camps. Wouldn't that be nice?
And what trash will we leave behind on Mars?
I'm sure all that clean up practice every year at Burning Man would be helpful.

Thanks for getting us back on topic Kickup.
In fact I was wondering that same thing, how about all the junk we've warped into space.
Would make a nice practical joke if aliens would send it back to us, mechanically 'genetically' altered, with a note attached to it saying :
'don't you ever do this ever again!"

Or make a giant mobile, you know, the kind that hangs from the ceiling? Only this one is constructed of space junk; dead satellites, pieces of the blown-up Chinese satellite, dead Mars rover parts, moon machinery and just for good humor, a dead refrigerator or two, a few assorted dead Christmas trees, several hundred empty Quarter Pounder boxes, and hang the whole thing over the White House on some sort of mysterious sky hook. I'm sure the aliens could do that. Of course the mobile would be shot down, seeing as how it violated the "no fly zone" over the White House. The mobile would then be taken to Wright-Patterson AFB to be analyzed, involving a study to determine the technology involved in levitating a refrigerator. The Air Force would then fly the referigerator to a contract firm in Silicon Valley, California to determine how refrigerator coils can be converted to levitation devices... After first searching it for occupants, of course.

P.S. You will never be able to buy a gizmo using levitation, but you will begin to hear stories in the media how all our military vehicle supply depots seem to be in disrepair and that our tanks, humvees, troop transport trucks, etc., do not frequent the depots as they usually do; the schedules for refueling at training camps are skewed. And you are left holding the newspaper wondering how the "terrorists" are involved.

.................so then finally............., once and for all the Roswell mysterie was solved.
It HAD been a weather balloon, returned by aliens who got caught hanging out by the white house, were then transported to Roswell and unfortunately died there of junkegites, a genetic defect caused by living in a polluted environment.

So the mystery of the White House anomaly has been solved and inadvertently settled the Roswell debate. Now on to the famous incident at Rendelshem Forest, UK, or maybe the Shag Harbour, Canada "anomaly." Or maybe a discussion of the Varingha, Brazil incident where a healthy police officer died after carrying the wounded occupant of the "anomaly" to hospital.

People say that sky is the limit. From your immagination, sky is not your limiting. Neither are the number of brain cells nor the size of the brain. [FYI; females have smaller brains but more cells. Male opposite.]
Is there such a thing as usable and useful junk ? Or neither this nor that.
China, Russia and USA are the big 3 space junk contributors. May be they should form a consortium space clean up crew. On earth, get all the mountain climbers together and give them a basket to haul back the junks they have left on the peaks. When that are done, we can start working other projects. I would suggest that the first task would be quit drinking bottled water. And use the same bottle over and over again. It takes about 100 years to degrade a water bottle in a landfill to carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. It will take shorter time under the sun, a couple of years.

On number of brain cells... the consensus is still out. Wait a minute, I'm still counting. Hmm, lets see... Seems I must have lost a few several years ago. Now where is that prefrontal lobe...

On space junk clean up... Is there an interstellar sanitation engineer degree available through a work/study program?

Kickup and all friends here. From your posts, you don't appear to lose any brain cells. More likely gain some. We won't lose any with aging. Some of the them are just not as active as previous time. In my case, reading your post actually help me to maintain their function. Use them or lose them. You are the most imaginative bunch I know.
Whoever would think of a new profession - intersteller sanitary engineer. Before we have an active company, we need a CEO. I vote for Kickup.

As I see, this iterstellar sanitary engineer task will be go to open space in space suit and push our debris to other Galactics and other sun's systems. By such way we will rid of our debris in our Sun system and (if you believe in Aliens) attract Aliens attention to our existing! Or better will be to give this task to some robotic devices!
And KickUp, we need you here on Earth (on MC site message board at least)!